Beware the BD
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I saw something today that made me think that all this hoo haa surrounding High Definition is a bit of a con. I walked into a store with a friend of mine who was looking for a surround sound kit and there right in front of the entrance was a TV playing ones of those Hi Def demo discs, the one where a black line moves from right to left comparing a blu-ray picture with that of a standard DVD. The DVD picture being portrayed as really blurry image next to the crystal clear blu-ray image, the standard DVD picture given as an example was so bad I was almost convinced that they were comparing VHS with DVD. The example film was Zulu (or Roarkes Drift) and I am almost tempted to buy it to see if the image really is that bad… or have they degraded the SD image to highlight a superior BD image? Well I think that they have. And I think if I can get the film they used in the demo myself it will prove that.
Although I may not even have to go that far to make a case for myself. The same friend that was looking for a surround sound kit ended up buying a RGB Scart for his DVD player and when we connected this all up at his house we played a movie, the movie was Fantastic Four, Rise of the Silver Surfer, the TV a brand new Panasonic Viera 46” Plasma. The opening credits of the film looked fine, and there is a point in the opening credits where the Silver Surfer flies past the moon on his way to Earth. This moon looked pretty cool, it was clear and crisp be it on pause or just playing the scene through, nothing at all like this blurred to hell scene that I am advised SD is from the demo disc. OK the TV we played this on is in my opinion a good TV, not the most expensive in the world sure, but a good TV, however we played this on a 7 year old £30 DVD player via a scart socket, on a TV big enough to show the flaws in the disc.
Now surely, this “crap” DVD player and scart connection would be absolute rubbish at putting a picture on screen, and maybe to some AV guru it wasn’t the very best that you can get, but without spending thousands and thousands it was a bloody good second.
So I think that they are purposely degrading the SD image on those HD demo discs you get or they record the image when it is connected via composite or s-video. Now my system indoors is a Denon 1940 connected via my AV Amp via gold plated component connections, the DVD players up-scales the DVDs too, a pretty good connection I thought although I am sure people will argue that there is better, I do know that I didn’t have to remortgage my house or sell an organ for the kit (although I have had a minor issue with the DVD player that I mention in a previous post).
On top of this Blu-Ray discs are expensive. I took a look at Amazon and took a random sample of 4 movies, here are the results.
Quantum of solace SD £12.98 the BD version £17.98
No country for old men SD £4.98 the BD version £9.98
Sweeney Todd SD £4.98 the DB £9.98
Black Hawk Down SD £3.98 the BD is £8.98
So if you bought these 4 films on SD you would pay a total of £26.92, on BD you would pay £46.92 that is £20 on the nose (or through the nose depending on your opinion). And judging from the results I’ve seen on a variety of systems I am not convinced that high definition is the way to go at the moment, at least not on anything up to an including a 46” plasma, just like I cannot tell the difference between 320kbps audio to 160kbps audio via my Ipod.
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Did you get really up close to the silver surfer image when you were back at your mates? Reason I ask is that viewing distance has a huge effect on how an SD looks. The problem in the shop is usually that you’re standing right in front of the telly (2-3ft). At that distance you will see every flaw in the image and next to that Blu Ray will look incredible. If you go 10ft back then the difference won’t be as great. On my setup I can tell the difference between SD and Blu Ray (on a 37″ screen from 14ft away) but it’s nowhere near the leap in image quality that VHS to DVD was, so agree, it’s probably not worth paying the premium at the moment.
Blu Ray discs are coming down in price a lot quicker than DVD prices were at this stage in their lifespan (Amazon has lots at less than £10 and then a 3 for 2 which makes them around £6 each), so personally I think the future looks bright for Blu Ray.
to be fair i didnt, but then i would never watch TV from 2 ft away, I would only ever compare it from normal viewing distance, which for me is about 7/8ft away. So a stand alone player which i bought (then took back) is a no no, i suppose the only way i would do it is if i had a PS3 myself and used it as a games console, with the BD just being a bonus. but then the prices will need to be a lot less for me to buy BD films.
Were you 7/8 ft away in the shop? I’m just trying to think why the image looked that bad in the shop. When I sit 14ft away I can just about tell the difference, but when I get right up close it’s night and day. I did compare Casino Royale (when I owned it on DVD and Blu Ray) and the difference was staggering up close, but less so from viewing distance. I would’ve thought that a 46″ screen from 7/8 ft would also be noticeably different. I think 1080p only really comes into it’s own above 42″.
I only got my PS3 ’cause of a priceing error if you remember. For me it was the other way round though, it was a Blu Ray player firstly and the fact that it plays games is a bonus! Things can only get better for Blu Ray though, prices will continue to fall and the catalogue is ever expanding. For me it’s only really worth buying the big blockbusters on Blu though, they’re the ones that are going to benefit most from HD picture and sound.
ahh the demo disc, I was about 5 ft away, i think they purposly degraded that sd image when comapred to the HD one on the same screen to make the HD one look much better
Sneaky if they did that, but I wouldn’t put it past them. It was probably a VHS image that’d been converted to DVD!
SD images through a decent upscaler look fine from the usual viewing distances. It’s only if you have a huge screen that you sit very close to or are using a projector, then you’ll really see a difference.
The other advantage with a few titles is that you get the theatrical film and the extended cut on one disc. The extended is run through seemless branching and you get to choose which version you want to watch. The vastly increased storage size allows them to do some neat stuff.
the images on my discs look great and i use a component connection which isnt upscaled, I am thinking of getting an HDMI connection to upscale, i cannot see me going HD soon
Nice post Steve. I was thinking of writing a similar but not identical one myself.
For sure the demo disc will show SD in the lowest quality possible, it’s all marketing after all.
One thing to remember is not all movies have been shot using ultra high def cameras and many more have not been produced very well which means transfer to Blu Ray doesn’t end up with a massive and stunning difference from DVD.
All in all though movies on Blu Ray are still compressed and the maximum possible quality possible is still far from reach with our current crop of televisions and media storage. A movie shot in ultra high definition resolution needs terrabytes of storage and even if we could make discs big enough to store them on, no TV screen yet is good enough to show them in their full recorded quality.
An HDTV is more important for gaming than movies at the moment.
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I think the SD DVD portion of those discs is through composite or s-video, ive since watched BR Casino Royale and SD Casinno Royale, there is a difference, but not as great as the demo, and not enough for me to shell out 100% more per movie
Disk prices are really starting to come down now though. If you wait a few weeks you can get titles below £10, some at HMV are £6.99 and those are amazing prices at this point in the formats lifespan. At this stage for DVD prices were nowhere near this.
I noticed this too and I must admit I cannot wait, I would love to replace all my SD with BR versions but I just don’t have the funds, plus I have some nice funky boxsets in SD and you don’t really get many in BR.
The DVDs that I buy at the moment average about £5 a pop, so I will go to £8/£8.50 for BR at the moment, I am not paying this £15 a time for old movies on BR
I agree. With new releases I’m waiting and buying them on Blu though. My upper limit is £10 so when they drop below that I’ll think about buying (depends how much I want the film as to how close to £10 I’ll go). There are also some nice 3 for 2 offers around (I think Amazon still have one running) that meant that the disks worked out at £6-7ish.
I do still buy the occasional DVD though. They tend to be the older films that I wouldn’t mind adding to the collection, but I’m not that bothered about. With the PS3 being a pretty good upscaler and me only having a 37″ TV I don’t think I have a DVD that becomes ‘unwatchable’ on my HD telly. I’m mainly buying the Blu’s to future proof against purchase of a bigger 1080p telly in the future.
sounds good, I wont be going above 37″ (my TV is 32″ at the moment) and my Denon DVD Player upscales too, although when i played casino royale the difference was night and day really
I would be loathe to spend £10 on a movie unless it was a favourite, for example i do want blade runner on bluray but already have the R2 and R1 ltd edition 5 disc boxsets.
They need to get some nice boxsets and steelbooks too.